Reliability of Citroen cars

[tm]

Was very surprised to come across this study commissioned by What Car! magazine on 38,000 vehicles, which placed Citroen above Mercedes, BMW and VW in terms of reliability. Article is at http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=222866#

Perhaps of particular interest is the finding that "Overall, the newest Citroen in our survey, the C5, was the least reliable; the most reliable, the Xsara, suffered more than most with brake problems". Not sure if this is a UK-specific issue.

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/251066539451.jpg

[voyager]

my goodness.

in that article, 2005's position for Citroën was 24th, then jumped to 6th place.

if the C5 is the newest car in the survey, then i think probably they didn't take into account the C4 (although it's not clear, and both cars were launched in the UK around the same time, as was the case in many other markets worldwide). i think it also depends on whether, by 'C5', they mean the original C5 or the facelifted one.

as you correctly point out, it's difficult to draw specific conclusions from the survey, (ie, it may or may not generalise well to the Singapore market), primarily because the range of Citroëns sold in the UK is very large, and includes the C8 (which apparently is a bit problematic), and Xsara Picasso, and the C3 Pluriel (which is another problematic one). a secondary factor is that the dealer network over there is of course WAY larger (and more variable) than our CnC here.

the other thing to bear in mind is that the September issue of 'L'Automobile' magazine ran a reliability survey on Peugeot Citroën and Renault (21 models from the three marques were assessed, sample size 21000 owners).

in that article, the headline for Citroën was 'Citroën continue d'améliorer la fiabilité' (Citroën continues to improve its reliability).

it goes on to say that as Citroën largely uses the same parts bank as Peugeot, the two marques tend to suffer from similar problems (notably electronic). However, the C4 and facelifted C5 show that, above all, the reliability has progressed [the magazine's words, not mine].

then it has an index for our range.

C4 15.3 upon 20
C5 14.8 upon 20
Xsara Picasso 14.7 upon 20
Berlingo 14.3 upon 20
C2 14 upon 20
C3 / C3 Pluriel 13.8 upon 20
C8 12 upon 20

[Ceasar]

hi guys,

Pls don mind me of asking, but what is your true personal view of citroen reliability? :P

With Kind Regards

[voyager]

hello Ceasar,

speaking personally, i think Citroën still has reliability issues, but they are not significantly different from other European marques. in terms of European marques, i have ownership experience of Volvo and Mercedes, and those times were not without problems (Volvo problems to do with steering / axle; Mercedes problems to do with cooling). the cars were not kept beyond four years, so they were quite new.

my Citroëns have been fairly young too. the only problem i had with my first C5 was to do with the antipollution fault (which has been discussed in a couple of other threads (mainly this one http://www.citroenchat.com/forum/index.php/topic,268.0.html)). that's why i 'dared' to sell it to my friend, because i had found it reliable during my ownership. since he took over, i think he has experienced a leak in his fuel tank, but then again, that kind of fault is not unknown in other European marques (eg, Audi (came out in the Straits Times), Alfa (Italian reliability is possibly even more questionable than French reliability) and Volvo (well documented cases in the local Volvo-owners' forum)).

my present C5 is doing fine and the cold-start-high-temperature problems no longer recur. i think generally that hydropneumatic Citroëns are a lot more reliable and rugged than they were in the past. it is my perception (based on reading, say, the UK Citroën owners' forum http://www.citroenpicasso.org.uk/) that well-looked-after C5s don't give suspension problems until they start to get a bit older (say, the first batch to have been sold back in 2001).

C5 problems, from what i've read, tend to do with the electronics, rather than the suspension or the engine. but my present car has been electronically fine so far. it is less than a year old :-)

as for the C4, i feel that it is a more solidly-built car than either of the two C5s i've owned. the whole car feels more tightly screwed together, and is more German in its feel than my two C5s.

having said that, icekhoo has posted in this forum that he has experienced a coolant-sensor problem with his C4, and the same thing happened to my dad's C4 recently. it is now at CnC and they are in the process of fixing it. the strange thing is that my parents are both very happy with the C4 nonetheless. i think the 'feel-good' factor that a C4 gives you is very high, generally speaking.

i love driving the C4, but i find it very hard to persuade my dad to let me have his car keys.

to sum up my long post, from the three cars i have owned, Citroën does have reliability issues still, but i do not think that these issues are more severe than what i've experienced / read about with other European marques. for me, at least, the sheer pleasure and confidence that comes with owning / driving a Citroën makes bearing up with the reliability issues worthwhile. do bear in mind, however, that as you can see from my signature below, my Citroëns have been relatively young.

please keep your questions coming :-)

[Furry]

hi guys,

Pls don mind me of asking, but what is your true personal view of citroen reliability? :P

With Kind Regards


berlingo : super bullet proof ;D

[lrrp77]

First official advertising by CnC France came out 2 weeks back, advertising the Berlingo ;)

[tm]

hi guys,

Pls don mind me of asking, but what is your true personal view of citroen reliability? :P

With Kind Regards


Generally, I get the sense that it is quite an improvement for Citroen when it comes to the C4. It is a solidly-built car, as Voyager mentioned. Barring the intermittent cruise control gremlin, full-turn reverse jarring (mentioned in this forum), and a deteriorating centre LCD screen (heat-induced?), I'm quite happy with it - touch wood. :)

[Ceasar]

hello Ceasar,

speaking personally, i think Citroën still has reliability issues, but they are not significantly different from other European marques. in terms of European marques, i have ownership experience of Volvo and Mercedes, and those times were not without problems (Volvo problems to do with steering / axle; Mercedes problems to do with cooling). the cars were not kept beyond four years, so they were quite new.

my Citroëns have been fairly young too. the only problem i had with my first C5 was to do with the antipollution fault (which has been discussed in a couple of other threads (mainly this one http://www.citroenchat.com/forum/index.php/topic,268.0.html)). that's why i 'dared' to sell it to my friend, because i had found it reliable during my ownership. since he took over, i think he has experienced a leak in his fuel tank, but then again, that kind of fault is not unknown in other European marques (eg, Audi (came out in the Straits Times), Alfa (Italian reliability is possibly even more questionable than French reliability) and Volvo (well documented cases in the local Volvo-owners' forum)).

my present C5 is doing fine and the cold-start-high-temperature problems no longer recur. i think generally that hydropneumatic Citroëns are a lot more reliable and rugged than they were in the past. it is my perception (based on reading, say, the UK Citroën owners' forum http://www.citroenpicasso.org.uk/) that well-looked-after C5s don't give suspension problems until they start to get a bit older (say, the first batch to have been sold back in 2001).

C5 problems, from what i've read, tend to do with the electronics, rather than the suspension or the engine. but my present car has been electronically fine so far. it is less than a year old :-)

as for the C4, i feel that it is a more solidly-built car than either of the two C5s i've owned. the whole car feels more tightly screwed together, and is more German in its feel than my two C5s.

having said that, icekhoo has posted in this forum that he has experienced a coolant-sensor problem with his C4, and the same thing happened to my dad's C4 recently. it is now at CnC and they are in the process of fixing it. the strange thing is that my parents are both very happy with the C4 nonetheless. i think the 'feel-good' factor that a C4 gives you is very high, generally speaking.

i love driving the C4, but i find it very hard to persuade my dad to let me have his car keys.

to sum up my long post, from the three cars i have owned, Citroën does have reliability issues still, but i do not think that these issues are more severe than what i've experienced / read about with other European marques. for me, at least, the sheer pleasure and confidence that comes with owning / driving a Citroën makes bearing up with the reliability issues worthwhile. do bear in mind, however, that as you can see from my signature below, my Citroëns have been relatively young.

please keep your questions coming :-)


SURE!

[Ceasar]

And thank you for those who have also contributed ;)

[frenchie]

Hi all,

Just registered this am...(boss away!!) ;)...

I own a 2002 C5 and by and large, the car has behaved-problems mainly with electronics - but not much as well...in terms of maintainence, parts are quite ex :'( and initially, service at AA was pathetic...however, notice that the drive gets better when the car is 'older'...maybe like wine!!!
BTW - anyone know of the new facelift C5 availabilty and thru CnC any extra discount for existing c5 owners...?

[frenchie]

It's me again....

Just want to find another source of maintainence for C5 - now that Advance Auto is out of the picture...can anyone recommend a workshop good for handling C5s..?
Thanks

[Gadler]

Thomas Tay
Thomas & Partner Workshop
Blk 10 AMK Ind Park 2A #03-03

Tels: 64834044 96881877

Knowing that I can depend on him and Michael (his fitter) is one reason I am keeping my C5 beyond 5 years......and he is not expensive compared to AA.

BTW, AA sent me a letter inviting me to go back to them for servicing Citroens since they "have the expertise and parts"......

[voyager]

hi frenchie :-)

welcome welcome to our community here :-) it has grown a lot over the past few months. i think it will grow a lot bigger and faster soon :-P

CnC have said in another thread at this forum (the 'Citroën Price List' thread) that they do have loyalty discounts. however, as things are so new, i am not sure the extent to which these discounts are for real, and the quantum of the discount. (i don't think any of us have bought any cars from them yet... too recent :-) )

the facelifted C5 brought in by CnC, apparently will be in two models. currently, the model with the same spec as the one that AA used to bring in, is the same price as the basic C5 model. maybe they have stock to clear, i suspect. for the prices, i believe they are listed in the same thread mentioned in the previous para (the 'Citroën Price List' thread)

please feel free to keep posting :-)

[car2car]

hi frenchie :-)

welcome welcome to our community here :-) it has grown a lot over the past few months. i think it will grow a lot bigger and faster soon :-P

CnC have said in another thread at this forum (the 'Citroën Price List' thread) that they do have loyalty discounts. however, as things are so new, i am not sure the extent to which these discounts are for real, and the quantum of the discount. (i don't think any of us have bought any cars from them yet... too recent :-) )

the facelifted C5 brought in by CnC, apparently will be in two models. currently, the model with the same spec as the one that AA used to bring in, is the same price as the basic C5 model. maybe they have stock to clear, i suspect. for the prices, i believe they are listed in the same thread mentioned in the previous para (the 'Citroën Price List' thread)

please feel free to keep posting :-)


All the C5 that CnC have bought in are 2006 manufacture. :)

[tm]

This year's standings has seen Citroen slipping slightly to 8th position. Still heartening to see it ahead of established marques like BMW, VW and Merc.

http://www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=229319

Manufacturer league table
1 Honda
2 Toyota
3 Subaru
4 Lexus
5 Mini
6 Nissan
7 Ford
8 Citroën
9 Rover
10 BMW
11 Peugeot
12 Mercedes
13= Fiat
13= Vauxhall
15 Volkswagen
16 MG
17 Jaguar
18 Volvo
19 Skoda
20 Audi
21 Saab
22 Chrysler
23 Seat
24 Alfa Romeo
25 Renault
26 Land Rover

[voyager]

thank you, tm :-)

time to look out for that issue when it hits our local bookshelves :-)

[peterlee]

Have to admit, I experienced a bit more reliability issues with Citroens compared to my previous relatively solidly built Ford. But C&C support is a little bit better than RM, and kinda makes up for it.

But look at Alfa, kinda true here. I got 2 firends who collected their 147 on the same day, and one year on, both selespeed start to act-up at the same time - exact same week some more! ;D

But funny that Peugeot more or less same family as Citroen but score lower... ???

[tm]

Have to admit, I experienced a bit more reliability issues with Citroens compared to my previous relatively solidly built Ford.


This correlates with last year's finding that the C5 was the least reliable in the Citroen family. :P

Separately, country of manufacture may also be a factor, i.e. same brand, different model -> different country of manufacture/factory -> expect different quality. ;)

[voyager]

Peugeot scores consistently worse than Citroën in the French magazine surveys too.

umm...

in fairness to the C5, i checked What Car's JD Power survey (July 2007 issue):
in order of rank from highest to lowest:
(Xsara Picasso, not sold here)
C3
Berlingo
C5
C4
(C2)
(C1 & Grand C4 Picasso too recent, not sure why the C8 MPV not included)

for the French JD Power survey, 'l'Automobile' magazine, July 2007:
C5
C4
Xsara
(C2)
(Xsara Picasso)
C3
Berlingo
(C8)

[voyager]

okie the issue of 'What Car?' is out in the shops :-)

it is the January issue, featuring the facelifted Focus on the cover.

inside, it has the detailed descriptions and rankings of all the major manufacturers which sell in the UK (the survey that is referenced originally earlier in this thread)

:-)

[Digitus]

Latest ranking from the Warranty Direct site:

1. Suzuki
2. Honda
3. Mazda
4. Skoda
5. Toyota
6. Hyundai
7. Nissan
8. Citroen
9. Ford
10. Kia
11. Mini
12. Peugeot
13. Lexus
14. Vauxhall
15. Volkswagen
16. BMW
17. MCC
18. Daewoo
19. Mitsubishi
20. Seat
21. Subaru
22. Rover
23. Fiat
24. Volvo
25. Renault
26. Mercedes Benz
27. MG
28. Saab
29. Audi
30. Jaguar
31. Chrysler
32. Alfa Romeo
33. Landrover
34. Jeep
35. Porsche

[Forsei]

Wow!
Is tt for real?
Citroen the 2nd highest ranking conti car leh...
Better than Lexus!

[Digitus]

Yes its for real. And its based on hard data, not subjective owner feedback. Go to Warranty Direct's UK website at www.warrantydirect.co.uk (http://www.warrantydirect.co.uk). Click on 'Reliablity Index' in the bottom lefthand corner.

Warranty Direct is the UK's largest after-market warranty provider. (They started in the U.S.) They've been in business 12 years and therefore have a large dataset with REAL reliability data based on claims against the warranties that they sell.

I discovered this data after reading a 2007 post on the UK Citroen owner's website, where one member noticed that the Reliability Index results were being fudged to hide the fact that Citroen was up in the top 10. (Yes, I know its a surprise isn't it!) There was suspicion that What Car magazine was behind the suppression. I think Citroen France eventually had a word with Warranty Direct and the suppression stopped.

What the reliability index shows is that the perception about higher reliability of German/Bavarian cars is wrong. So if you buy an expensive Teutonic marque you are paying a huge premium to buy a myth! Assuming that Citroen can continue to improve on build quality (yes there is still room for improvement) the new C-series cars and the upcoming stunning DS-series will show that it is possible to build and sell great looking and well-spec'd cars at reasonable prices.

[Xxer]

amazing!

somehow, i would hv thot citroen n pugs shld rank closer to each other as both basically shares much of everything except body parts..

[Digitus]

amazing!

somehow, i would hv thot citroen n pugs shld rank closer to each other as both basically shares much of everything except body parts..


According to what I've heard and read the C5 and 407 share about 70% to 80% body parts, including engines and floor pan. But the two cars couldn't be more different from each other. The C5 is a MUCH better car.