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Old 04-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #11
voyager
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cranxworz,

thank you very much for taking us through the trouble-shooting and deduction processes in such detail.

thank you for sharing this :-)
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:36 AM   #12
vincenttanpt
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ATF is gearbox oil? I have no clue how to check.

Now I only top up 1L engine oil about every 2500 km.

Recently, intermittent ESP / ASR fault. Drove to Antz and they found my right rear abs sensor faulty which issue lots of warning alerts. They told me quite recently a few drivers also have this.

Then I also realised my radiator fan not running at high speed, low speed ok. A bit used to during start engine, will like to hear the high speed fan before moving off. So got it changed even though I replaced that at Antz 1 Yr ago. They also find it puzzled the fan is running like the same speed even though their diag kit activated it to go high.

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Old 04-12-2018, 12:52 PM   #13
cranxworz
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Checking the ATF is easy, but for some, they may think it is messy and 'dirty'.

You may need an 8mm square socket driver. For AL4. The drain plug is located at bottom beside the right hand side (viewed from front) wheel, and is within arm reach (Easier to just crawl under LOL)

The gearbox need to be warm to at least 70 degree. What I usually do is drive around a few KM from cold start. put on a pair of rubber gloves and crawl under the chassis and remove the drain plug.

Note. The ATF must be at least 70 degree, for me after a short drive the ATF is hot, almost scalding hot, and you can never get an accurate level when oil is cold and level is always high when cold.

1. The ATF if at correct level should fast drip
2. If Over filled. The ATF will flow out like when you're doing an engine oil drain

To top up, or to make sure the ATF is at the right level, just pour .5 liter ATF, let engine warm. Run through all gears.. Remove drain plug. Oil should flow and once it reaches the correct level, will start to trickle, then fast dripping. This is when I will quickly re-install the drain plug.

Note. There are 2 screw at the drain plug. the one outside is usually an 8mm square socket (Square as in four corners, can buy from sites like taopao or amazon) After removing thr drain plug. There is another 8mm hex (Allan key bolt) holding the level tube. Hence, for ATF change. You need to remove that tube using the 8mm hex socket.

Imagine. The tube sticking inside the oil sump. That is the leveler.

Note that ATF should and must always be clean. Not like engine oil will turn black. Hence, if you pour in red colored ATF, after 20K drive, should still come out red (Maybe brownish red), if oil drain is black.. then that could suggest some bad overheating inside the gearbox.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:06 PM   #14
vincenttanpt
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Sounds complicated. Likely will leave it to my mechanic. Ahaha.

Mine is 2011 C4GP. Was evaluating to extend or get replacement. Quite disappointed with the new 5008 and C4 Spacetourer in SG actually.

Was evaluating on Renault Grand Scenic

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Old 04-12-2018, 01:36 PM   #15
cranxworz
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Hi Vincenttanpt. Yes, ATF is gearbox oil.

Maybe you want to take a look here for the ESP fault?
http://c4owners.org/plugins/faq/faq.php?0.cat.2.205

Unless if I have deep pocket, I will also try to give the ABS sensor a good spray of contact or brake cleaner, imo. Locating and finding ways to reach the senor can be a challenge, but that's where we learn from there.

Our car are really very robust, and only in Singapore that we need to scrap once it reaches 10 years. In other country, these cars can run for over 200K miles (over 300K KM) LOL!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenttanpt View Post
ATF is gearbox oil? I have no clue how to check.

Now I only top up 1L engine oil about every 2500 km.

Recently, intermittent ESP / ASR fault. Drove to Antz and they found my right rear abs sensor faulty which issue lots of warning alerts. They told me quite recently a few drivers also have this.

Then I also realised my radiator fan not running at high speed, low speed ok. A bit used to during start engine, will like to hear the high speed fan before moving off. So got it changed even though I replaced that at Antz 1 Yr ago. They also find it puzzled the fan is running like the same speed even though their diag kit activated it to go high.

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Old 04-12-2018, 01:45 PM   #16
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Haha. Yesterday change the sensor liao. Already hit 160k on my 7th Yr.

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Old 04-12-2018, 01:47 PM   #17
cranxworz
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Of course. Mechanics are indispensable. I just got lucky like for the case of the Fan and heating issue, turn out, was a sensor contact fault, but if it were to be the thermostat fault, then definitely need to send to workshop for replacement, as removing and installing it is easy, but coolant draining and burping is a complicated process, and unless if things can be fix within arm or tool reach. I won't want to touch anything LOL!!.. and for this reason, I will only buy 8 years old used cars or brand new cars. For old cars, if it get really bad. Just scrap. For new, can lean on warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincenttanpt View Post
Sounds complicated. Likely will leave it to my mechanic. Ahaha.

Mine is 2011 C4GP. Was evaluating to extend or get replacement. Quite disappointed with the new 5008 and C4 Spacetourer in SG actually.

Was evaluating on Renault Grand Scenic

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Old 04-12-2018, 02:02 PM   #18
SkyC4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranxworz View Post
Hi, new forum member here. Driving a 2010 C4 Picasso 1.6 THP

Just to share. I too have experience jerkiness and dragging, and even gearbox fault from the AL4 gearbox.

I bought this car used, and is accompanied with very up to date service records. Thick stack of invoices from various specialized workshop, and the car is mostly repaired and service by C&C.

Now coming back to the AL4 gearbox jerking, dragging and warning lights. The dragging and gearbox fault light only happens after a cold start, and if I don't warm the engine and drive off immediately, the gear will drag when it try to switch from 3rd to 4th gear, and immediately the gearbox fault warning will appear (Very consistent), and stopping and restarting will clear the fault. This have gone on for months, until I decided to check the ATF condition.

Firstly. ATF level was higher then what the AL4 is spec for, maybe like 1 liter +-. But what confuses me was the color of the ATF which is golden/dark similar to engine oil color, and in my experience driving a Peugeot 308 previously which also uses the same AL4 gearbox. The ATF is red in color, and doing further research, the ATF in an AL4 is said to be only RED and that only LT71141 should be use.

Imagine the dilemma. The ATF in my car was changed late December 2017, by reputable workshop, and it is gold instate of red, and the only gold colored ATF I can find are recommended for use in an AT6 (6 speed auto gearbox).

Anyway. Took the plunge, add about 2 liter LT71141 ATF (Red color), let the engine warm to temperature and drain the ATF to correct level, drove it for 2 days, then do a complete drain, and add 4 liter LT71141, and this time, while leveling the ATF, the oil flowing out is red color.

Now. I can immediate drive off without warming the engine, and the gearbox no longer drag, no gearbox fault lights. No jerking accelerating up steep multi story carpark etc.. Gear shift is smooth, but will still get the occasional 'thud' when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear and I believe that's the characteristic of the AL4.

A side note on the fan thing. Did not happen to this C4 picasso I am driving, but have this issue with my previous Peugeot 308. My problem is less damaging, as instate of overheating, my peugeot runs cool, where temperature is always hoovering around 60 to 74 degree, and I will experience engine stalling when temperature drops to below 60 degree.

Searching various forum, and for obvious reasons the issue seems to point to a faulty thermostat (Always open), where for Peugeot/Citeron comes as a complete unit with the housing.

in my understanding, our engine optimal temperature is 90 degree, +- 5 degree is normal, and above 100 degree will risk serious damage, and below 80 degree will cause the ECU to send wrong signal to the fuel system.

While in my effort to locate the thermostat (To see if I can DIY the replacement), I unplug the temperature sensor located at right side of the engine near the thermostat, clean the electrical contact with WD-40 contact cleaner. At the beginning, I immediately got a overheating warning when I start the engine. Hence, focus my attention on the sensor contact. Another clean. Leave for few minutes to dry, then plug it back, give it a few firm push at the cable. No overheating warning when I start the engine, and best of all. Temperature start to rise to 85-90 degree. No more loud fans, and I can hear the fan switching from low to high when required.
Amazing DIY you got there. Clearly, it seems some "reputable" workshop didn't put the right ATF in, which we know is so important for the AL4.

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Old 06-12-2018, 01:16 PM   #19
cranxworz
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To clarify. after checking back on the invoices. The gold colored ATF is Mobil ATF 4HP20(Gold) which replaces the Esso LT71141 (Red). Hence, correct oil used. But level. well, a lot more came out of my transmission. Anyway.

Repair bills can be eye watering, and there are really to re course for botch job, but for some, even with deep pocket, they would rather spend the money on a new Macbook or nice iCE, and surely nobody enjoy having their car towed to a workshop after paying thousands.

A very simple overfilling of ATF can cause over heating, and clutch slipping (like dragging a table across the floor), sensor failure. and the more obvious oil leak. So. We normally will leave these complicated stuff to an expert, and people knows. Pay peanut, get monkey. Hence, we pay for meat?

Looking back at some past repair done by the previous owner of my current car.

Starting with an Overhual of the gear box by workshop A, and then rework by workshop B. Really no recourse, LL suck thumb..




Again. Simple components like the drive belt. Which technically have been replaced 3 times in 2 years, with the last one replaced by me as it broke midway through a drive. Initial visual inspection suggest nothing. Belt is all clean, and looks new. But it have been replace by 2 workshop? and last DIY (Seriously easy job). and why it broke prematurely?. A seized alternator pulley, this was never replace by the previous 2 workshop, and if the pulley is not replaced, will cause the car to idle poorly when aircon is turn on, noisy idling, vibration etc.. Imagine the repair potential the alternator pulley can give to a mechanic?? LOL!!!!!

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